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JAG Discussion [SPOILERS]

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"Going After Webb," the first episode of the tenth season, just finished airing on CBS. Anyone other JAG fans here? I have been watching for ages and am glad I was able to catch the premiere tonight. I was very surprised by the episode and even more surprised that I was able to remember so much from last season.

Some comments, spoiler heavy:

Click for Spoiler:

When the discussion about Mandilay got started and Coates was telling Bud and Harm about the book/poem/whatever that was about a house, I instantly thought Webb was at his mother's place. So I was partially right.

I did not see the twist near the end with Simon turning out to be "The Hawk" and I certainly did not think that Webb had been the one taking the shot at Simon at the park.

I thought Harm was going to save the day (again) so I was pleasently surprised to see Webb's mother do the deed.

It was great to see Webb again and I hope he guests again sometime down the road. I wonder how things with Harm and Mac will go down now...

So, discuss?

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"Going After Webb"

Actually, the title was apparently changed to "Hail and Fairwell, Part II". At least that's what it said at the beginning.

Click for Spoiler:

I also get the impression that they changed the show significantly from the way it was originally intended. Apparently, they were supposed to have introduced a new romantic interest for Harm, but it never happened. Makes me wonder if they scrapped that angle - he certainly seemed pretty interested in Mac this episode - or if they just pushed it back to a later episode.

At first, when they finally made it clear that Webb really was still alive, I was pretty disappointed. I'm getting sick of the love triangles (and sometimes squares) that TPTB have been throwing in since the fifth season. However, when they reversed the trend of emasculating Webb from the previous season and made him a bit more like he was way back in the day, I was a little less disappointed. I was even more less disappointed when Mac handed him his walking papers. Though I highly doubt we've seen the last of him.

As for Tanveer, I had him pegged as The Hawk (I'm also curious about why they chose Hawk over Falcon, since both translate as Faucon - unless they were trying to avoid associations with that ex-KGB agent from several seasons back) about the half-way point of the episode. Everything involving him was just a little too convenient. I also pegged Porter Webb as the one who'd save the day. There was no other reason to show her loading the gun after Mac left her house.

Oddly enough, the thing that surprised me the most about the episode was them having added Zoe McLellan and Scott Lawrence to the opening credits. :D

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"Going After Webb"

Actually, the title was apparently changed to "Hail and Fairwell, Part II". At least that's what it said at the beginning.

You know, I thought I saw that, but when I went to CBS.com it had "Going After Webb" as the title.

Click for Spoiler:

<<I was pretty disappointed. I'm getting sick of the love triangles (and sometimes squares) that TPTB have been throwing in since the fifth season.>>

Indeed. I did not watch Seasons Seven or Eight (half because I was not home on Tuesdays and half because I did not enjoy the love triangles and other geometric shapes). But I enjoyed the series a lot last season and this season should be just as good.

<<Everything involving him was just a little too convenient.>>

I could not remember anything about Tanveer, so I really had no idea what to expect regarding him.

<<I also pegged Porter Webb as the one who'd save the day. There was no other reason to show her loading the gun after Mac left her house.>>

See, I thought I saw a flash of someone's jacket at the house right as she was loading the gun, so I was thinking Webb was there and she was just getting ready to help him...or something.

<<Oddly enough, the thing that surprised me the most about the episode was them having added Zoe McLellan and Scott Lawrence to the opening credits. :D>>

If I am not mistaken, that is the first change for the opening credits since Season Two.

Wee! I am quite glad to have someone to talk JAG with.

Edited by cmdr_forst

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So this is the first major addition, aside from minor things.

And by the way, you, sir, know far more about JAG than I do. Impressive!

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So this is the first major addition, aside from minor things.

Well, they add a few new scenes every so often. The scene at the end with the biplane flying away from the explosion is from the eight season finale.

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Right, right, you know too much. But! This is the first time since Season Two that the credits included a new "credit," in other words, a new actor/actress. Right?

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From TV Tome's JAG section:

"JAG" SEASON PREMIERE WINS ITS SLOT FOR CBS, COMES IN 2nd OVERALL:

Last Friday night, the season premiere of "JAG" left no doubt that the veteran series would pick up right where it left off last season.

Starting its 2nd (continous) year on Fridays, "JAG" showed it still had what it took to win its slot. However, a Barbara Walters interview of Mary Kay Letourneau on "20/20" ended up as the highest watched episode for the night. "JAG" fans should not be disappointed as their favourite show was the 2nd most watched show of the evening.

The other CBS shows that bracketed "JAG" each was 2nd in their respective spots. "Joan of Arcadia" came in 2nd behind "Dateline NBC" in the 1st hour, while the premiere of the new series, "Dr. Vegas" was 2nd in the 3rd hour behind the "20/20" episode. However, it was "JAG" that helped give CBS the nod as the most-watched network for the night.

Last night's episode, "Corporate Raiders," was an episode that seemed totally predictable but ended up not being so predictable.

Spoilers Follow, but since I marked the overall thread as having spoilers, I am not going to put these additional spoilers in black. Only spoilers for future episodes should be blacked out.

Anyway, "Corporate Raiders." The theme of a widow believing something about her dead husband, be it foul play or something equally fiendish, has been played out on JAG time and time again. So, when I saw previews for this episode I was expecting the same old, same old, and at first I was not disappointed. But by tossing in the CEO of Battlefield Solutions (that right?) as having a hidden agenda, the writers tossed us viewers a bit of a shake-up. I for one did not see that coming, as I thought the CEO was one of those honorable types.

I have never been totally comfortable with the Harm-Mattie storyline, as it always seemed to go against his fighter pilot image. But, of course, the fighter pilot angle has been played down, and so far this season Mattie has not been a huge part of Harm's life. I want to see how things go down with Mattie's father. Has he turned his life around? Will the two of them get back their aviation company? Dun dun dun.

And, finally, my obligatory Mac is hot post. There it is!

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But by tossing in the CEO of Battlefield Solutions (that right?) as having a hidden agenda, the writers tossed us viewers a bit of a shake-up.  I for one did not see that coming, as I thought the CEO was one of those honorable types.

Yeah, I didn't see Merrick as a villain (at least not until Sergeant Evans (was that his name?) decided to suddenly fall on his sword). Especially not considering that the last time we saw him (season six's "Collision Course") he was portrayed as an honourable guy, and they went to lengths to reinforce that impression - though I suppose that should have given away the fact that he had ulterior motives.

I do think the entire basis for recalling Evans for court martial was a bit iffy, unless he was on inactive reserve - which seems at least possible, if he's considering returning to the Marine Corps - rather than retired.

I'd also like to note that the pan through Bethesda near the beginning of the episode was probably one of the most moving scenes ever on JAG - even if they were all actors.

I have never been totally comfortable with the Harm-Mattie storyline, as it always seemed to go against his fighter pilot image.

Personally, I've always liked it. Harm, at least in his post-JAG incarnation, isn't a typical fighter pilot. Note how he torpedoed Buxton's career in "Rules of Engagement" after getting him off. Harm is almost obsessed with doing what's right over anything else (which actually presents an interesting contradiction in "Corporate Raiders", where it's Mac who goes above and beyond while Harm is willing to give up). Especially when children are involved. Consider the two fourth season episodes "Nobody's Child" and "Goodbyes", where he goes to incredible lengths - eventually, it's strongly implied, murder - in order to protect Annie and Dar-Lin Lewis from an abusive father.

That said, there are still parts of the fighter pilot attitude obvious in Harm. The way he told Mattie to have "that" talk with her father, rather than with him. Or his comments about his sidearm being superior to a shotgun. :D

I suspect, however, that Mattie will ultimately provide the impetus for Harm and Mac getting together. It's obvious that Harm's personality has changed dramatically since the beginning of the ninth season. Presumably we're building to a point where Mac will realize that Harm no longer wants to "be on top" - probably after Mattie goes back to her father and Harm starts feeling all lonely.

Edited by Karma

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Especially not considering that the last time we saw him (season six's "Collision Course") he was portrayed as an honourable guy, and they went to lengths to reinforce that impression - though I suppose that should have given away the fact that he had ulterior motives.

I do not remember seeing that episode (although according to my records I have) but the episode did a fantastic job of making Merrick look noble. And you are right, maybe that should have triggered something.

I'd also like to note that the pan through Bethesda near the beginning of the episode was probably one of the most moving scenes ever on JAG - even if they were all actors.

Agreed. JAG does a fantastic job of portraying such events (at least I think so).

Personally, I've always liked it.  Harm, at least in his post-JAG incarnation, isn't a typical fighter pilot.  Note how he torpedoed Buxton's career in "Rules of Engagement" after getting him off.  Harm is almost obsessed with doing what's right over anything else

He was never the typical fighter pilot. Or, if he was, we never saw him in that capacity. He loved to fly and he was more than willing to use violence if he felt it necessary, but I agree, he was always read to go above and beyond to do the right thing. And I think I recall those episodes you are referring to. I think my biggest problem with Mattie is the fact that she burst into his life so fast. It seemed somewhat far-fetched that things would proceed that quickly. I did miss a few episodes last season, though, so who knows.

I suspect, however, that Mattie will ultimately provide the impetus for Harm and Mac getting together.  It's obvious that Harm's personality has changed dramatically since the beginning of the ninth season.

Oh, totally. Harm has never been a static character and he changes it up a lot, but I have seen a drastic shift in how he acts this season and last season, as opposed to some of the earlier seasons. I just hope we get another season out of the series before Harm and Mac get together. Once that does, the series is over.

I cannot remember if this is supposed to be the last season or not. Any idea?

And a few other questions, regarding characters from the past:

Whatever happened to Harm's half-brother from Russian?

I remember seeing/reading that Gunny left to rejoin an active military unit, but where did Tiner go?

At the end of last season, was Harriet pregnant again? I know there was that whole debacle with their second kid dying, and then Mikey and Bud had their feud regarding little AJ. And is Harriet not going to be in the series anymore? And for that matter, what about Mikey?

Golly, thems a lot of questions.

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I think my biggest problem with Mattie is the fact that she burst into his life so fast.  It seemed somewhat far-fetched that things would proceed that quickly.  I did miss a few episodes last season, though, so who knows.

Normally I'd agree, but Harm's life was in a rather drastic state of flux when he met Mattie. He'd just (within six months or so) been denied a return to the Navy, lost his job with the CIA for being hero, and given up his career to save Mac (and Webb) without so much as a thank you (in fact, not only did Mac not thank him, she claimed that they'd never be together and made it pretty obvious to Harm that she was interested in Webb). Mattie provided him with something that he could grab onto, to give his life meaning again. Under the circumstances, I think it's not surprising, especially for someone like Harm, he would latch onto her the way he did.

I cannot remember if this is supposed to be the last season or not.  Any idea?

No one knows. Catherine Bell just signed a two-year deal, so she'd be under contract for an eleventh season, but David James Elliot's contract expires at the end of this season, and apparently they had trouble getting him signed up last time (which is why the eighth season ended the way it did - so they could have killed Harm had Elliot not signed a new contract).

Whatever happened to Harm's half-brother from Russian?

He went back to Russia at some point shortly before Singer was murdered. At the time he was engaged to a Russian stewardess.

I remember seeing/reading that Gunny left to rejoin an active military unit, but where did Tiner go?

I don't know about an active military unit. The last few times we've seen Galindez he was working with Webb and the CIA.

Tiner finished his law degree, so he left to go to OCS and then to then to learn how to be a Navy lawyer (there's a name for the training, but it escapes me at the moment).

At the end of last season, was Harriet pregnant again?  I know there was that whole debacle with their second kid dying, and then Mikey and Bud had their feud regarding little AJ.  And is Harriet not going to be in the series anymore?  And for that matter, what about Mikey?

This will be the Roberts' third (and fourth? I think they might have said she's pregnant with twins) kid(s). After Sarah died they had another son that they named James Kirk Roberts (Harriet never made the connection to Captain Kirk until Mikey pointed it out just before his christening).

I don't think Harriet's done with the series, but since she's gone onto inactive reserve it would be hard to justify having her in a lot of the episodes.

Mikey's Academy roommate (the guy who was accused of academic dishonesty last season) is supposed to be in an episode later this season. I'm not sure about Mikey though.

Edited by Karma

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Mattie provided him with something that he could grab onto, to give his life meaning again. Under the circumstances, I think it's not surprising, especially for someone like Harm, he would latch onto her the way he did.

I mean legal-wise, actually. I did not think Harm would be able to go from hardly knowing this girl to being very close to adopting (if I recall correctly) in such a short timespan. That does not make anything you said there any less true, and I would go as far as to say that Harm needed Mattie to come along to ground him again, after his life had thrown him so many curveballs.

No one knows.  Catherine Bell just signed a two-year deal, so she'd be under contract for an eleventh season, but David James Elliot's contract expires at the end of this season, and apparently they had trouble getting him signed up last time (which is why the eighth season ended the way it did - so they could have killed Harm had Elliot not signed a new contract).

I did hear about that. I really hope we get an eleventh season, if not more. JAG has been a high-quality series for so long, and I personally have yet to see any real jump-the-shark moment. It can carry itself for quite a while still.

Thanks for you all your answers. They cleared things up for me. I had forgotten that Harriet had gone inactive, which explains why she is not around.

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I mean legal-wise, actually. I did not think Harm would be able to go from hardly knowing this girl to being very close to adopting (if I recall correctly) in such a short timespan.

Considering the situation, that Mattie was living on her own, I think it would have been expedited.

I think, generally speaking, courts try to avoid sending kids into foster homes, so they would have preferred to wrap things up quickly, so that if Harm proved suitable, Mattie wouldn't have been forced to go into foster care for an extended period.

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Considering the situation, that Mattie was living on her own, I think it would have been expedited.

That makes sense. And, of course, I have no real idea how all that stuff works...

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I have a vague idea of how it works in Canada, and courts do prefer to keep children out of foster care if they can. I can only assume that the same sentiment would exist in the States.

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Oh, probably. I have just always thought that it takes a lot longer and with a lot more work on the part of the adoption agency or whatever. I know Harm had to talk to that one woman last season and he was sweating it a bit.

In the grand scheme of things, it really is not a big deal.

Say, Karma, what are your thoughts on the first season of JAG, with Tracey Needham as Meg Austin?

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Say, Karma, what are your thoughts on the first season of JAG, with Tracey Needham as Meg Austin?

It's been a long time since I saw any of the episodes. I do recall that some of them were really good. I'm not sure how the series would have turned out had they stuck with Meg over Mac.

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I loved the first season. I really have no idea why, considering the fact that it was choppy and undefined (much like the first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Regardless, I really thought the interaction between Meg and Harm was good. They had a different dynamic than even the early seasons with Mac. Watching those episodes now, though, with everything that has gone on since, it is tough.

I like to think of the first season as a somewhat different show - and it was. Different lead actress, different networks, etc, etc. To this day I am still amazed by how the producers managed to work in Catherine Bell's guest-appearance in a Season One episode as a different character (although I personally have never seen the episode).

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To the best of my knowledge, Skeleton Crew (the episode that introduced Diane Schonke) has only ever been aired - at most - twice, both times on the USA Network. A lot of the footage was incorporated into season three's "Death Watch".

All things considered, though, I'm very surprised they bothered to have Harm react to seeing Mac. When they first introduced the character, no one knew who Diane was. And even if they had seen Skeleton Crew, she's only in it for a couple of minutes in the teaser, after which the character is dead.

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To the best of my knowledge, Skeleton Crew (the episode that introduced Diane Schonke) has only ever been aired - at most - twice, both times on the USA Network. A lot of the footage was incorporated into season three's "Death Watch".

So I hear. I keep meaning to try to get a copy via some channels I may or may not know of...but I never get around to it.

All things considered, though, I'm very surprised they bothered to have Harm react to seeing Mac.  When they first introduced the character, no one knew who Diane was.

I know! How incredibly awesome is that of the producers and writers, to think it out that much? Kind of gives off a tiny bit of a Babylon 5 or Futurama vibe.

Man, all this JAG talk really makes me wish I could see some of the earlier episodes. I have most of the Season One episodes on tape somewhere, but I have no way to get them now. And have you noticed how we are the only two people to post in this thread?

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I know!  How incredibly awesome is that of the producers and writers, to think it out that much?  Kind of gives off a tiny bit of a Babylon 5 or Futurama vibe.

Having Sturgis react with surprise the first time he saw Mac was a nice touch too. I don't remember if Keeter did, but considering the circumstances they met under I suppose it's possible that he just didn't say anything.

And have you noticed how we are the only two people to post in this thread?

I noticed that.

I think Fred watches it sometimes, but I remember he was upset about Chegwidden leaving, and he may want to avoid any spoilers. When he still posted here Omega used to watch JAG. As far as I've seen, no one else does.

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I think Fred watches it sometimes, but I remember he was upset about Chegwidden leaving, and he may want to avoid any spoilers.

Oh I don't mind spoilers :D On Belgian TV we're several years behind anyway...

And, yes I'm still upset over Chegwidden :mymy::D

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Having Sturgis react with surprise the first time he saw Mac was a nice touch too.  I don't remember if Keeter did, but considering the circumstances they met under I suppose it's possible that he just didn't say anything.

I missed the episodes that introduced Sturgis. All of a sudden I was watching and he was just there. I really know nothing about the character...wait, is he an old friend of Harm, is that why he would react to seeing Mac for the first time?

fdewaele

And, yes I'm still upset over Chegwidden :mymy:  :D

So am I...so am I.

Edited by cmdr_forst

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is he an old friend of Harm, is that why he would react to seeing Mac for the first time?

He and Harm (and Diane and Jack Keeter, from season one's "Smoked" and season four's "The Black Jet") were all at the Academy together.

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He and Harm (and Diane and Jack Keeter, from season one's "Smoked" and season four's "The Black Jet") were all at the Academy together.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Clears things up, too.

Do you just retain all this knowledge, or do you watch the whole series yearly to keep up? I mean, I would consider myself a moderate JAG fan, and I know a lot about the series, but you know everything!

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