Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
forst

Star Trek: Discovery Season 1 Discussion (SPOILERS)

Recommended Posts

If you're watching Star Trek: Discovery and want to discuss all episodes with unmarked spoilers, this is the place for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still haven't decided if I'm going to subscribe now, or just wait until the season is over and binge it all at once.  

It will be interesting to see how Michael goes from mutineer to serving on the Discovery.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm generally impressed so I know I'll be watching to see how things go. It was a rather bold move of them to show the main character mutiny and not even get a wrist slap for it at the end, she gets life time in prison. I just hope they have a good reason for taking her out of it again the very next episode, granted the show has precedence of characters having served prison time before coming on to the main ship, Ro Laren and Tom Paris spring to mind.

I'm kind of still wrapping my head around the klingons, I don't mind the new look, but they felt so riggid and inanimated. I would have just tossed it out as these being religious fanatics under that religious leader, but the High Council didn't look much better. I've just gotten so used to the wildly animated and bombastic klingons of the 24th century.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly!  I was thinking, based on what was reported, that these Klingons had been separate from The Empire for, like, 2000 years so that technically could explain why they looked different.  First, they weren't exposed to the Augment DNA and second, they just evolved different.  Look at the subtle differences in Vulcans and Romulans.

But since they had the rest of the leaders of the Klingon Houses, and they looked just the same, throws all that out the window.

I can see where the similarities between Burnham and Ro Laren/Tom Paris.  But I think mutiny is more serious of a charge than what Ro and Tom did.  Ro just didn't follow orders and it ended up getting away team members killed.  Tom left Starfleet and joined a "terrorist" group.  Although both were serious charges, I think neck pinching your captain, attempting to take command is more serious of a charge.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Digitalfreak™ said:

I can see where the similarities between Burnham and Ro Laren/Tom Paris.  But I think mutiny is more serious of a charge than what Ro and Tom did.  Ro just didn't follow orders and it ended up getting away team members killed.  Tom left Starfleet and joined a "terrorist" group.  Although both were serious charges, I think neck pinching your captain, attempting to take command is more serious of a charge.  

 

True, usually that kind of character in Star Trek would be one of the villains. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought I'd post some quick and initial thoughts about Discovery, after seeing the first, two episodes.

I am not a stickler for strictly sticking to canon or anything like that. We've had five Star Trek series to date and to keep things fresh, they have to come at it from a different angle. But saying all that, boy, Discovery really is a different kind of beast!

1) Space is beautiful! - love the scene where Burnham is outside with the planetary system backdrop and the star.

2) Computer AI is flexible - so many times we've seem unthinking rigid computers on starships. But this computer has ethnical protocols, but can be reasoned with and also flexible actions when necessary.

3) DNA repair medical technology - with the advances we're making in real life, it'll be hard to believe the Federation of the future doesn't have this kind of tech

4) All Klingon speaking scenes - I wasn't put off by this. Although why they didn't use the Klingon usually spoken on previous shows is beyond me. This new Klingon speech sounds grating to the ear. By using all Klingon it does give the sense this is a alien culture.

5) Mutiny is bad - This was just bad. As bad as neo-Kirk promoted from cadet to captain.

6) Captain Philippa Georgiou good! - She represents the spirit of Star Trek. When she was killed, I felt the writers were saying, yep, we don't believe in the spirit of Star Trek anymore. Her "Battle is blood and screams and funerals", shows why the Federation chooses path of peace and mutually helping everyone who wants it, because war means suffering and pain and should be avoided if possible.

7) Both Georgiou and Burnham are 'right and wrong' about the situation. Burnham's analysis of the Klingon's is spot on and how they want war. Georgiou is correct that the Federation unfortunately cannot fire first to preserve their reputation. I expected both characters to recognise, a compromise solution. Let the Klingon's get the first shot, then counterattack quickly afterwards.

8) Good protrayal of relationship between Georgiou and Burnham. You get the feeling there's real history and bond between the two characters.

9) Going to capture the Klingon leader. They should have co ordinated with the other ships and sent more people.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really liked the newest episode. They acknowledged that Burnham was not liked for being a mutineer and started the war and she wasn't pulled back into star fleet because of her ties fo Sarek, have to admit I was a little worried they would use that.

How they established the captain of the Discovery, it was well within his character to get Burnham onboard, he definitaely struck me as someone to take a risk like that. However I must admit for a whole lot of the episode and even at the end, I felt like this:

 

So I can't really complain so far, but we are still very early in the season, so who knows what I'll think as we get more episode in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked this episode much more than the first two, this is great!

After talking with some friends the idea came up that by the end of this series Captain Lorca will go off the deep end after trying to commit genocide (Using the Spores?) and at some point in his madness he will rechristen himself, Garth of Izar. Michael Burnham will  be forced to have to make a decision whether or not to Mutiny once again; this time for all the right reasons, to stop a madman.

(As a side note, He is super shifty and I highly suspect that he is hiding something. And that creepy collection he has in his study, a Gorn Skeleton, and keeping that giant tardigrade (water bear) from the USS Glen is kiiiiind of weird) 

Another subject that came up was, is the USS Discovery run by Section 31? I have my doubts to that theory, but my friend was drawing conclusions from the Black comm badges and the hush-hush of everything. He also said the Registry (NCC-1031) pointed to Section 31 too, but I think he was stretching that logic a bit. haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't personally think he'll will necessarily snap or go off the deep end. However, I do believe he will be controversial in his methods to end the war. My main reason for thinking that is that so far it seems too obvious, so far the show has not been that obvious to me. Also since I watch this on Netflix, it takes me straight to the After Trek show and the show writer answered very plainly to a tweet with a similar theory that the captain will not snap. If that is true or not I don't know, but he's evaded before a lot of plot specific questions so seeing answer so plainly to this one is rather interesting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to admit, this episode was a lot better than episode two.  

Definitely Section 31 at work here.  There just can't be any other way around it.  If that's not the current intention of the writers, they really need to make it so.  As a die hard purist, if they throw in the Section 31 element that would be totally okay with me since S31 is in the habit of "making things disappear."  In regards of the ship being numbered NCC-1031 for Section 31, I think that's pushing it a little bit.  S31 wouldn't be that obvious.  

In regards to the spores.. IF they are capable of the instant transportation to where ever you want to go, I think this would be a good way to explain how the Iconian Gateways (TNG "Contagion," DS9 "To The Death") work.  If that's the case, that would be a nice nod.

And I could totally see Captain Lorca becoming obsessed and going crazy.

Also, what if the biogenic research they're doing is what CAUSES the Klingons to look like the TOS ones?  It is possible that the Augment mutations done in Enterprise could have been reversed by this point, so why not hit them again?  Besides, in just 15 years they'd be back to normal (The Motion Picture).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, Episode 3 watched!

I am puzzled why Burnham is considered the person, who started the war with the Klingons. The Klingons were spoiling for war anyway, even if the Shenzhou hadn't come onto the scene. But I suppose it's easier for the Federation to blame someone for starting a war, then to acknowledge there are species out there who don't want to join their literal congregation. Shades of Michael Eddington.

I am not sure that Section 31s involvement is necessary to explain the Discovery. They are at war, aren't they? Plus a secret organisation that isn't meant to exist, cannot show itself out in the open.

I think Star Trek Discovery is just called Star Trek in order to use that established 'universe' to tell the story the writers want. Which is just to create a good drama show with conflict and interesting character relationships. It definitely isn't our vanilla trek. But I think I can live with this. The characters all have distinct personalities and their interactions are interesting. In fact, I dare say, this series is similar to Babylon 5!

I read this article with Jason Isaacs, that reveals more:

https://trekmovie.com/2017/10/02/jason-isaacs-explains-lorcas-study-and-whats-up-with-landry-from-star-trek-discovery-ep-3/

In it, he says the Federation is losing the war. Hence why Lorca has been giving such scope to do what it takes to win. I was thinking that the Federation doesn't really need special weapons like the ones Discovery is developing, but could win the war using better conventional weapons. But I suppose the writers want the Federation up aganst the war to be able to tell the story they want full of conflict. Also the Federation been peaceful, it would be difficult politically and socially to change the majority of Starfleet into virtually a battlefleet. Hence if just using a 'secret weapon' can end the war cleanly and quickly, they rather do that.

Jason Isaacs also says this:

I think in this tradition of Star Trek captains and these alpha males who rise to the top, he’s got a taste for the good life and he’s got an eye for his female officers. I don’t know that that’s going to work with Burnham very well, frankly. She doesn’t look like she’s up for that kind of thing, but him and Landry certainly have a relationship that goes beyond, I would think, work. But that’s how I played my scenes with all the women on board, whether or not the writers were on board with that. By the way, that’s my tribute to Shatner. I always thought, as much as the original series was born out of the civil rights struggle and the birth of feminism, some of that was [infused with a feeling of] James Bond. It was clear Captain Kirk had his way with any member of the micro-skirted crew members he wanted, so that was my subtle tribute to him. I’m playing that, even if it’s inside my head. (Laughs.)

I suppose this is partially, his take on it and also what the original series protrayed. TOS was influenced by the sexual liberation and free love ideals during the 60s. But I can't really believe Captain Kirk would go around bedding any female member of the crew he wanted. Kirk struck me as a person who was professional and respected women, both as colleagues and romantic partners. But I cannot believe he was a lech! But saying that, when people spend years on a starship, they have needs and will establish friendships and relationships. Although for the Discovery storyline, I think they want to put in some sexy stuff like in Enterprise to ramp up the drama and increase viewing figures.

EDIT:

Also, I do wonder if Lorca's fortune cookies actually have messages inside them?! :)

Edited by Harry Kim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dammit Discovery, everytime I think I know what direction you're going, you take a sharp turn in the other direction. :lol:

I seriously didn't expect them to immediately use the Tardigrate like that, I was almost convinced it would be this big controversial surprise that Captain Lorca was keeping, but nope almost immediatly he's going "hey I'm keeping the beast you met on the Glenn, find out how it kills."

I think I'm just going to stop trying to predict, clearly this show is just going to continue to surprise me at every turn. :D

Also that chief of security, what an idiot. I honestly couldn't even feel sad at her death. I mean she knew what that creature was capable of, saw it in action, ignored the so far only expert on it who quite clearly said "we don't know if sedatives work on that thing" and I don't care if it was Burnham who said it, opens the containment field to try and cut a claw from it. What a prime specimen for the Darwin Awards, I think we have a winner. Sheesh.

The Klingon b-story, I was not really as surprised by it. I'm seeing already some snivel of the Klingons from the TOS era there. It will be interesting to see how that continues to develope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Episode 5 now.

So the plot moves forward and we get more focus on other characters other then Burnham.

I can't believe Starfleet would just let Lorca travel on his own unprotected in a shuttle?!

And when he left Mudd behind, it didn't feel right to me. Afterwards I justified it as that Lorca was thinking, Mudd couldn't be trusted. For all we know Mudd feels the Federation will lose this war so might as well make nice early with your new masters. Mudd could have sabotaged their escape.

Tyler... at first I felt he was kosher. Then realised maybe their escape was a little convenient. He maybe a spy. Wouldn't Lorca who has studied the art of war, be at least be wary of such a thing. Or maybe he does suspect and will feed Tyler misinformation. Or I am thinking in circles. :D

Without more Tardigrades, how is Starfleet gonna make this work? If they get more of them, then they risk killing them. Of course it's either the Federation or the Tardigrades. What if the Tardigrades are sentient and can communicate? That would really put the Federation into a dilemma, cos it's enslaving another species. But at the moment they can conveniently treat them as animals.

Surely using the DNA transfer technique means the problem is solved. As far as we can tell, it's having to stab those things into people that hurts them? Or is it also a brain depletion issue too? But saying that, I rather risk death like this, then losing the war and been tortured by Klingons. And I think people would volunteer in this way to help decisively end the war. Which should mean Starfleet is guaranteed to win.

So Lorca destroyed his own ship to 'save' his crew. It still doesn't explain how he became this person who would do such a thing in the first place. So there's obviously more backstory how he become this hardened person in the first place. Just like with Burnham the Klingon killing her parents is one factor she's gung-ho against them. So what is Lorca's story?

The Discovery jumping is still a very cool effect. And the tardigrade jumping also looks cool!

The end scene was creepy to say the least.

EDIT:

There are some serious plotholes in Episode 2. So the Klingons don't bother helping their stranded brethen for 6 months?! And using the stealth technology on all their ships?

Starfleet doesn't come back to capture this stranded Klingon ship and get the stealth tech themselves?

The Shenzhou is left abandoned, no attempt to destroy vital Starfleet technology?

I can see why some fans are disappointed.

Edited by Harry Kim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally had no problems with leaving Mudd behind, considering the last two episodes we've seen him in Star Trek (three if we count the animated series) that guy is practically asking to be shot out of an airlock. Quite honestly I was in full support of Lorca leaving him behind, though it does answer the question why Mudd was so desprate to try and run away from the Enterprise back in the original series. He's met Captain Lorca. :lol:

I honestly am taking quite a liking to Captain Lorca, yeah he's clearly a dubious character, but I have so far no doubt about his loyalities, they are clearly to me aligned with the Federation. Although we hear him confess having blown up his ship to spare his crew the torture of klingon imprisonment, I don't think we have the full story here and I can't wait to see more of it.

I'm once again unable to predict what the show is going to do, I had all kinds of ideas what was going to happen next and they were all blown out of the water once more. So i'm just going to sit back and enjoy the ride. Loved this episode, it's seriously shaping up to be at least my third favorite series after the original and next generation.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ooooo I miss the old formatting... Here's the cleaned up version:

 

There are some serious plotholes in Episode 2. So the Klingons don't bother helping their stranded brethen for 6 months?! And using the stealth technology on all their ships?

Starfleet doesn't come back to capture this stranded Klingon ship and get the stealth tech themselves?

The Shenzhou is left abandoned, no attempt to destroy vital Starfleet technology?

I can see why some fans are disappointed.

This.  

Also, I'm pretty sure Tyler is a spy.  At least, a Klingon altered to look human.  It's been done before.

And I'm pretty sure he's Voq in disguise.  

Quote from screenrant:

Voq is the albino Klingon who was torchbearer and devoted folllower of the late T’Kuvma (Chris Obi). Following the Battle of the Binary Stars, Voq and L’Rell were stranded with no functioning warp drive and no food. We even learned the gruesome truth that to fend off starvation, they ate the corpse of Captain Georgiou (Michelle Yeoh). When Kol of House Kor (Kenneth Mitchell) incited mutiny and took command of Voq’s followers, Kol abandoned Voq to die on board the wreck of the U.S.S. Shenzhou. However, L’Rell, who has a romantic relationship with Voq, beamed herself on board the Shenzhou to share Voq’s fate. When last we saw Voq, he was going through the still-functioning ship’s log of the Shenzhou and learning all he could about Starfleet and the Federation. Voq’s disapperance and L’Rell’s sudden reappearance as commander of a prison ship opens up a slew of questions. How did they escape the Shenzhou? How did L’Rell assume command of the prison ship? And how did L’Rell learn to speak English as well as she did when she tortured Lorca?

All of this very easily and credibly leads to the possibility that Ash Tyler is actually Voq in disguise. L’Rell told Lorca she was descended from spies – she is from House Mo’Kai, known as “watchers,” “deceivers,” and “weavers of lies” among the Klingon Empire. It’s very possible Lt. Ash Tyler is Voq surgically altered to appear human and sent as a Klingon infiltrator to the Discovery. The capture of Lorca was likely no accident nor a stroke of luck – he was targeted so Voq-as-Tyler could gain his trust by helping him escape the Klingon ship and join him on board the Discovery. While it’s unclear just how long L’Rell and Voq were trapped on board the Shenzhou and when in the course of the seven months between “Battle at the Binary Stars” and “Choose Your Pain” they could have escaped the Shenzhou and surgically altered Voq to pass for human, with L’Rell’s background as a spy, they had the necessary intel from the Shenzhou to implement such a plan.

 

So yeah, I'm pretty sure this explains it.  IF they have come up with something else, then this would have been a wasted opportunity.

According to iMDb, Ash Tyler is listed all the way to at least episode 15.  So unless this is to throw everyone off, he'll be around for a while.

Also, another tidbit, it's possible that the same actor who plays Ash Tyler is the same guy who plays Voq.  When you Google Voq, all you can find is some actor named Javid Iqbal.  When you find his page, it specifically says at the bottom "Trivia: He is not the Canadian actor that played the role of "Voq" in the CBS Star Trek: Discovery (2017) TV series."

Also, leading up to the launch of Discovery, no casting announcement was made about Voq.  AND, Memory Alpha says:

"Originally, CBS announced in December 2016 that T'Kuvma's protégé, then named "Kol", was to be played by Shazad Latif. In the final version of the series, Latif went on to portray Ash Tyler and T'Kuvma's protégé was renamed "Voq", while the name Kol was given to a leader of a rival Great House."

Could it be that CBS messed up the announcement, and redid everything to try to throw everyone off?  Now I know this show went through A LOT of rewrites, edits, etc.  But it appears to me that there is a clandestine attempt to try to keep this stuff quiet in an attempt to surprise viewers.  

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I partially agree to the possibility of Tyler being Voq. When one thinks about it, the puzzle pieces do fit. However due to Discovery's tendencies to blow all my theories out of the water, I'm not quite ready to fully commit to the idea, I'm just going to wait and see what the show does, because I've honestly given up trying to predict things for it since so far practically everything I've thought of has been utterly abolished in the next episode.

However, I'm definitely going to hold onto that theory in reserve.

And then Voq appears in the next episode.... with how this series has been going, I would be so not surprised. :lol:

Also about the Klingongs letting T'Kuvma's followers rot for six months, I kind of took it from Kol how manupilates them to abandon Voq as they are really not fully committed to T'Kuvma's ideas and were really just starving them out to gain control of the ship, (the houses do seem to be still fractured even if they are all joined in fighting the war with the federation) Kol just simply had the brighter idea of waiting until they were that desperate that they would betray Voq in exchange for food.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been thinking about this theory which I came up with over my lunch break; after watching this weeks latest episode (S01E06 Lethe). 


What if our Lorca is from the Mirror Universe?
We know that he used to be in command of the USS Buran, and that ship blew up and killed everyone except Lorca. What if our Lorca crossed over from the mirror universe while on the Buran. He might have been figured out by the crew and in his escape blew up the ship and the REAL Captain Lorca to cover his secret and then assume the identity of Captain Lorca in this universe, reporting to Starfleet Command as Lorca that they were ambushed by the Klingons and all hands were lost. 
Mirror Lorca then goes on to take command the only ship in Starfleet that he knows of that could possibly take him back to his own dimension, via the Spore Drive, and he needs Burnham for some reason in this scheme as well (The "Bring her back, or don't return at all" scene). Mirror Lorca acts against what everyone would assume a Starfleet captain would act like, he's aggressive, goes against Starfleet Command often, lies to get what he wants, he guilt trips his crew by playing the dying miners over the PA in order to force them to work harder, he has an entire study dedicated to war and weapons. We also find out that he sleeps with a phaser in his bed and that he has one tucked into the small of his back (Last scene of this episode). Admiral Cornwell also noted after their night together that he seemed like an entirely different man, and when she was about to get him kicked out of his Captain seat and send him to a psych evaluation he (allegedly, Not too clear on this one) disables her phaser and then suggests for her to take over on the dangerous mission to meet with the Klingons (Which he must have deduced is a trap), then when she is captured he refuses to go rescue her. 


What are your thoughts? Does this theory hold up to closer scrutiny?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Helburn said:

What are your thoughts? Does this theory hold up to closer scrutiny?

I see no reason why Lorca couldn't be from the Mirror Universe, but just cos he acts differently doesn't mean he is either. I don't think his that 'savage', like others are saying. His just been through a lot and that can change any person's personality. Like soldiers returning from war with PTSD.

As for him trying to get Admiral Cornwall killed to prevent her from relieving him, that did cross my mind. Or maybe there's nothing to it either. Maybe he realised that just fighting for survival only to lose the good things that make the Federation what it is, isn't worth it. He doesn't want to lose Cornwall's friendship or his ship and decides to rein in his behaviour. On the other hand, I don't think anyone's under any illusions, this maybe a trap. But they must chase any avenue for peace. Maybe Lorca figures if the good Admiral gets to go through some pain on a personal level from the Klingons, instead of 'sitting in a office', then she'll come around to his point of view. Also by asking for authorisation instead of just going after her, it'll make Cornwall realise that when lives are at stake, i.e. her life, waiting for slow mo Starfleet to authorise rescue, means more suffering for the people waiting for rescue. By experiencing this on a personal level, it'll make the Admiral realise Lorca has a valid point.

 

Edited by Harry Kim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I for one am going to give Lorca the benefit of the doubt for now. I've so far been proven wrong on so many occasions by this show that I really am just going to sit back and see where they take this. 

I'm though more curious how these logic extremist vulcans can defend their alleged superiority by bombing a learning center to kill a child and I don't care it if is a human child. I have a feeling they are beeing a little more emotional about the subject than they care to admit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite enjoyed "Lethe" and its deep immersion into Sarek's psyche.  Possibly now the essential Sarek story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if Voq is Tyler, he certainly is a good actor if he's willing to go so far to kiss a human to cover his identiy, the possibilty of a sleeper agent is still there. But Discovery contines to make me somewhat sceptical of the Voq is Tyler theory, but I'm still not ruling it out, this show has a tendency to surprise at every turn.

And Disacovery didn't waste much time (pardon the pun) to do a time loop episode. Star Trek why must you always mess with temporal laws? :lol:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×